Interview with Pat Bisconti

P: I was born in Youngstown, Ohio, on July 18, 1945. Ababy boomer.
My father, back from Europe after serving in the U.S.
Army during WWII, worked in a steel mill.
When I was five my family moved to the then
beautiful Santa Clara Valley. I went to school in Campbell–
Los Gatos area, and I started hitchhiking over to Santa Cruz when I was
about 11, by myself.

R: When would that be?

P: That was probably 1956 or 7 I think? I don’t know. 1945, I was about
eleven—I was coming over before, but that’s when I started
coming over to surf on weekends and holidays. I would leave my
surfboard with friends at Pleasure Point and hitchhike over
until I was able to get my first car, looking back it seems kinda

And then, after graduating high school, I went to San Jose State College
or University, whatever they call it now, I was an art major, and I
went there for two years, got pretty good grades, and quit because I felt
they were making me even more stupid, and you know, I had other things
I wanted to do, and I didn’t really respect the degree very much, obviously, and
probably I made a big career mistake. But before that, while still in high
school, I had married my high school sweetheart, Nancy Garthwaite.

When we were just 17 years old, and
We’ve been married all these years, it’s been about 53 years now, and
we’ve had seven kids, and 14 grandkids so far. She has been through it
all with me, and is my strongest supporter.

We were buying a new house in San Jose at that time, and I gave it to my
brother. Then we moved over here to the Twin Lakes
Beach area— and we rented a beautiful little beach
house with a cabin studio in the back. This is where Steve Sprague and I
created the original manuscript for
“The Madjic Trip.” children’s book about the five basic senses.
Tandy Beale, the beautiful dancer, and John, the guitar
virtuoso, moved in next door, behind us. Then Sharon Cadwalder, who
wrote “The Whole Earth Cookbook,
and Max Hartstein,the psychic alchemist, moved into another cottage
there. Tony Maggi, the artist/fisherman,Joe Lysowski, artist become
saint, Gary Dunn, large sculpture mover and musician, Phil Hefferton,
One of the original N.Y. pop artists and heavy musician
on the harmonica and trombone, Ron Boise, master metal sculptor,
Stan Fullerton, great artist and master painter, Charlie
Nothing, musician, artist, writer, and Tox Drohard, master drummer- all
these very creative individuals, and so many more great spirits were
around the neighborhood and active at this time.

R: *** around 1965 when ***** retired

P: So, around1964 we were living in this two bedroom
house on the beach for
$70. a month, right across the street from the beach and Schwann
Lake, that little lagoon there. And there was
a studio cabin behind a row of these other cabins, and I got that for an
extra $5 a month, and so that became my art studio, where I worked
on “The Madjic Trip.” graphics,
and that was the project I was working on at the time, and then, let’s see
. Max had come up from Mexico, he had a house in Mexico that was his
painting studio, and so he had come from there, from Mexico up to
Santa Cruz, and that’s where and when I met him , he was developing
his Paradise Pageant idea, in fact he had me involved in that project
for a many years, . He was also making movies, and I helped him
make “Beach Head in Paradise.” Filmed on the 4th of July at the Santa
Cruz Boardwalk.

Ralph: You don’t have copies of any of those movies, do you?

Pat: No. He had copies. He had them all on 16mm, mostly with the
soundtracks still on separate tapes. It all has to be digitalized and transferred
to modern media.

Ralph: I’ve got that.

Pat: You’ve got theBoardwalk movie? Okay! That was the first one
made in Santa Cruz. That was a lot of fun. Not much of a storyline, more
of a social adventure.We shot it all in one day. Later, I started working
on “The Space Bass.” Max started “The Space Bass Movie, an excellent
documentary about the creation of this time/space machine that
actually was able to manipulate time and space and transcend third dimensioal
reality. The creation process took a couple years, and was
filmed outdoors.

We were having regular like barbecue dinner get togethers in the
neighborhood. Some of our friends were fishermen, and so they would
provide fresh fish, other people would bring some kind of dish, or a bottle
of wine or whatever. You know, a
potluck kind of thing, and so that’s how some of us met. Very mellow
neighborhood kind of dinner gatherings with pleasant conversations
about everything.

Ron Boise had just caused a huge disturbance in the art world with his
Kama Sutra Sculptures at The Vorpal Gallery in San Francisco.
and gotten a lot of press, and was chilling out in Santa Cruz. He was living
in his van and working out of that,
and we were kind of helping him with some of the shows.
He put a show on at The Steam Beer Brewery in San Francisco, during
that time, and Gary Dunn and a few of us helped get his large pieces
there and set up the show. Shortly after that Ron took his sculptures to
Texas for a show, and he got sick, and he died. Very unexpected and

Somehow, I inherited his welding gauges and tools. His leather welding
gloves had holes burned in every finger tip.
(After making the Space Bass, I past Ron’s metal tools onto Charlie
Nothing, having taught him to weld, and he began making his “Dingulators.)
So, I had started working on this Space Bass, which I made out of a
WWII bomber gas tank that was of good resonating steel. I had been
kind of inspired byRon’s”VoidHarp”, but he was making his
instruments out of copper, and copper really doesn’t resonate very well,
it has a dull sound compared to American automobile steel, before
The 1960’s anyway, and before 1950’s is even better. I was welding
sculptures out of metal things I recycled, cars, metal appliances, etc.

My family being from Youngstown, Ohio, were from the steel mills,
and so my uncles, and father were in the steel business, and they came
to the Santa Clara Valley in the 1950’s, and were involved in San Jose
Steel, and Des Moines Steel Company and they were very busy
building up the Santa Clara Valley, all the schools, freeway overpasses,
big buildings and things. Therefore, I was kind of expected to go into
something having to do with steel. So in college I took sculpture
classes learning how to weld sculpture. Then I ended up with Ron’s
gear, and I started working on the Space Bass, and that turned out to be
a two-year project, and Max was filming the whole time, and when I
finished it, we presented it at a big party at the old Holiday Lodge, the
hippie commune that was in Felton, and he filmed that as part of the
movie, and also part of another movie he made about the commune.

R: The commune was an organic farm.

P: Yeah, and it was right on the river there, near Felton off Highway 9.

Of course, Max was making a documentary
movie of that. And we presented the Space Bass,
(The very first base in inner space, which is the same as outer space),
which was kind of cool. And eventually, later we had the World
Premiere at The Straight Theater, on Haight Street,
San Francisco. It was at the height of the Flower Children
Bloom… And so we had one or two busloads of Santa Cruz folks
coming up there, and they were all in the band.

We had a complete light show.
So we started playing music and lights, and the thing really took off in a
heavenly way….. everybody was dancing and playing music, then
all of a sudden …… FLASH, after 10 or 15 minutes all the bright houselights
went on, and the cops came in from everywhere and pushed us
up against the wall and effectively shut us down. I guess
somebody had stolen somebody’s guitar and, or something—
I don’t even know, cause it wasn’t one of us who had a guitar stolen or
stole a guitar—but it kind of killed our thing.

And that was the way The World Premier of the Space Bass turned out.
The Space Bass Movie was designed to be shown in a light show on one
screen while the commune movie was shown next to it on another

Two movies shown simultaneously side by side in the middle of all these
liquid projections. And at one point in time they both became the
same movie. One was about the “hippie commune”, and the other- one
was about the Space Bass, except for that section where they merged
into the same scene, on the same screen. After that they split again back
into two movies, but now the movie that had been on the left screen was
on the right screen, and the movie that had been on the right screen was
on the left screen.

Both movies end at the same time in a mind blowing strobe light explosion,
and light show.

We were probably a little ahead of the curve in movie making back
then, before computers and digital cameras.

When we presented this at the FillmoreAuditorium with “Love Lights”,
under the direction of Dr. Dick Smith , they told us it was the best light
show they’d ever seen there.

But it was all designed to be part of the Paradise Pageant.
We had recorded this mind fugue Max wrote called “The Proclamation
Of Paradise”explaining how we’re living in Paradise,
and that we should take care of it. This was before there was any real
environmental consciousness, or environmental movement to speak of.
Anyway, it took us several years to go through that period, and then
Max moved up to Boulder Creek, and I moved up the street in
Boulder Creek, and we shared a studio on the San Lorenzo River for a
couple more years, I guess, and we worked on several projects individually,
and together.

I made a series of Kalimba’s and bamboo flutes and metal sculptures

R: Was that around ’67?

P: Yes. 67, 68, 69 …and we did music under the name “The Twenty Fifth
Century Ensemble” playing “Perfect Music”, where there are no wrong

Max’s explanation was that we were brought here now from the 25th
century in a time bubble, to remind mortals that this planet is paradise
and to harmonize with it.

Every Thursday night the studio was open to the public to play music

Many different people from different places would show up, always new
faces mixed with the usual suspects.Always spontaneous free expression.
I remember the nights during the winter storms best. Max recorded
every session, and built a large tape collection of these sociological
events. You know I think one of the best things we did was,
and I suppose he has the tapes, but the one that I recall the best is titled
“The Legend of The Indian Dogman” which was with
Futzy Nutzle and Max and Fred McPhearson, and
me and a few others, I’m not sure who the other people were.
But I would like to see that tape produced,
that album, that music, you know… I think that piece was exceptional.

R: It may not exist. I have a very small box that arrived, apparently
when Max died, his daughter-in-law, I forget her name, collected all his stuff, and she was
sort of derelict, going around the country in a van and selling the stuff in cities for money
to live on, and it ended up with this very small box that Holly Harmon saved when this woman,
I forget her name, passed through Santa Rosa where Holly lives. And there are four or five
16mm movie rolls, but they’re all labeled “protest in San Jose,” so that was probably not an
art event. So I didn’t pay to have them digitized. And there were some audiotapes, I did
, maybe three or four of them, *** audiotapes, I had them digitized, so I have that saved.
And then there are two drawings. There was a sketchbook with line drawings by Max in it.
That’s all that survived, as far as I know.

P: Yes, Max was very involved in Civil Rights issues, and was a World
Peace activist. He just recorded and filmed
everything for years, actually. He had made shelves in his studio full of
tapes, and the studio was set up as a sound studio,
so all he had to do was turn on the tape machine to capture the set.

R: I know.

P: I don’t know if Nutzle would have ever got a copy of The Indian
Dogman, I don’t think anybody ever got copies of anything. But Futzy
did a great illustration for the album with hopes it might get produced.

R: I talked to Fred MacPherson about it, but he didn’t have any copies.

P: Fred was very involved in many of the projects and performances.
He is the original environmentalist.

R: So that was lost. So much is lost.

P: Yeah. So much is lost or forgotten, but still there is more information
than we can handle.

Then, Nancy and I bought a a little cabin in Zayante, and I kind of
spaced out on Max and the Twenty-fifth Century Ensemble, and took a
somewhat different direction.

I started playing music with Charlie Nothing, and he was living up on
Empire Grade, on what they called The Bump, which was
the Lingerman property, and I was living in Zayante which is deep in the
mountains of Felton.

We used to play at the Zayante Club sunday afternoon, for food
and drink, and that went on for several years, and other places alsothen
I was given an art grant to live free in what had beenthe
main house on the Lingerman property. John Lingerman moved farther
up the mountain into many different dwellings, which he made over
the years. One of his homes was carved into the white sandstone, like a
cave with a panoramic view of the Monterey Bay. It was actually
Troubled times,because there was all these wars going on between
Lingerman and some of his kids, over the land and the water and stuff.
Originally it was a 160-acre piece of property, and Lingerman had just
divided it and gave each of his kids 20 acres and he
gave Charlie 20 acres, and Gary Dunn 20, and Joe Klein, and Phil
Hefferton. But there was only one spring on the property
that provided all the water, and that piece was
saved as community property, so everybody would have water, and
I guess one of his kids somehow deeded it to himself,
and sold it to a doctor, who built a big house, and cut the water off
to everybody else. He had the water and he cut it off. And that started a
series of negative behavior as a result of everybody not having water for
their animals and gardens,etc.

On top of that John Lingerman was like the well driller of
Santa Cruz, a super well driller, and all his kids were professional
well drillers, also. So the 160 acres was covered with holes.
These guys had drilled holes, but no water, and the funny thing is, the
property is right next to where Santa Cruz gets all its water, right
on the side next to this property. So we’re living on this property that has
no water, and it is right next to where most of the water
Santa Cruz gets comes from. And then you’ve got well drilling machines
everywhere in the bushes everywhere, all kinds. He made
one out of a Volkswagen engine that two guys can carry up the hill, and
there was a giant WWII half track, that you can drive anywhere,
got this big huge buick engine on it. Plus, all the other rigs, because his
boys had their own well drilling companies. and no water for us.
All that going on, and then you got Curly, that’s what we called Lingerman—and
at one time he got so upset with his sons, he actually dug an
open grave in the middle of the road up the mountain, hard work for an
old man, and he waited there with a shotgun for them to come home,
so somebody called the cops, I’m not sure what happened next, but serious
trouble was avoided.

And that was the kind of things we dealt with. His kids would shoot up
all his equipment and then he would shoot up theirs.
Everybody had guns. So there was this feud thing kind of going on.
And at the same time they were fighting the county, because nobody
ever got any buiding permits for anything. So they formed this religion
called Kargachi ogi, to which they deeded the land. Kargachi
ogi, so they could get around the building permits and stuff, because Kar
gotchiogi had this belief system, and one of them
is that you can’t put a floor in your house because it cuts off the good
vibes from mother earth, so forget the foundations and floors.And then
Curly actually built a house, a big one, that
had a foundation all the way around, but he didn’t build the house on the
foundation. He didn’t build the walls connected to the foundation, and it
was, very funny.

So that was what that was like.

At the same time we were all very into gardening, goats, chickens, and
horses. Except Curly, he was into cows. Milk cows and bulls. We had
some really good horses, some arabs, and spent much time training
horses and riding.

Charlie and I were hooked up with The Front Porch Gallery in Venice,
California, that became the Zeneta KertizArt Gallery,
and so we were doing a lot of things in Venice and L.A.
with art shows and musical performances,
and that went on for a long time. Living on a remote mountaintop off the
grid, and doing art things in the busy modern world which we were not
apart of kind of endeared us to a small group of fans.

And then I went to Seven Sanctuaries Gallery, that was run by, or
owned by Carol Cole and her husband John Ernsdorf, he is a really good
guy, and she was once Charlie’s wife and they were still friends, and she
was Nat King Cole’s daughter, and a very creative person herself.
It was a very nice gallery in a good location, and I had a successful one
man show there, sold a lot of things, was held over for a month because
it got a very good review in the LosAngeles Times, but I don’t know, I
decided I had enough of the big city, and wanted to just spend more time
in my studio, and with my family, so I pulled out of L.A.

And now Carol is passed, and Natalie, her sister is passed, and
Charlie’s passed, and Max, and Sharon, Phil and Gary, and so many
others. John and Zeneta Kertiz sold their Venice Gallery,
and moved to Ojai.

John was kind of the poet laureate of Venice, California for a
time. He and Zeneta are fun to be around, and we’re still sort of in
touch, he and I are the last of the original “The Superfabulous Dingulators
“. (google that)
While we were living on The Bump, I was looking for a place for just
my family, without the drama, and we finally found a place in
La Selva Beach.

We bought a 10 acre horse ranch at Whiskey Hill Ranch, and raised
our seven kids in a modern home my brother designed for us.
That was a fun time. I had a large1200-square-foot studio and it was
set up to do everything: metal work, stone work, painting, music,
anything I wanted to do. I could make noise, and run heavy equipment.
I did a lot of stone carving here. And then, when the kids grew up,
Nancy and I moved to Kauai, because I was really into surfing and had
fazed out the horses.

We moved to the north shore, Hanalei, and that was fantastic, I lived my
dream, surfing and painting, on Hawaiian time. After a few years Nancy
and I started missing the kids, as they were all on the
mainland, and we were flying back and forth a lot, so we moved back.
We moved to WaveAvenue in Pismo Beach—a very nice area of the
central coast, but the surf was terrible, and most of our children and
grandchildren were in Santa Cruz, so we moved back, and we have been
living in Aptos/Seascape area by the beach.

R: But you and ** supported everything all these years with your art?

P: Well, I tried to, that was my impossible goal, but I had a growing
family that required a decent cash flow and the art world is way too
flakey, and I am way too lazy when it comes to outreach and promotion.
So between art shows, I ended up doing all kinds of part time work
whatever I could to make money, anything that was legal, to pay the
bills. I mean every kind of odd job I could get, you know, day laborer,
truck driver, all phases of construction. landscaping, lumberjack, mainterance
man, substitute school custodian, house painter, sign painter,
Busboy, waiter, dishwasher, floral designer, horse trainer, art director,
mechanic, anything really. Nothing too steady, because I was committed
to my art projects. I prefer working shit jobs in the real world to hanging
around art galleries. Plus wierd work has helped tremendously to
shape my art.

When we moved to La Selva Beach, I accidently and luckily
got a job as custodian for the City of Watsonville, working at
City Hall. I was the head of the night crew that took care of all the city
buildings, and I did that until I was able to retire, which I did at the first
opportunity, The people there treated me really well.

It worked out nice because I had all day to do my artwork free from outside
restrictions and poverty stress, and I could surf and work with my
horses, and it provided a steady income, and I could practice meditation
while working, which I was able to do because of years of zazen practice.
I like working meditation more than sitting meditation.

I wish I could have done more for the kids, but they have all turned out
to be amazing people, inspite of the hardships They are each very exceptional
individuals with good lives and bright futures. If the future
turns out to be bright.

R: Wow.

P: They’re all incredible.

But anyway, I keep working and doing, you know, art. I gave up having
shows, basically, pretty much. I’d never really think about it, although I
have enough artwork to put on several shows at once if forced to do it. I
realized a long time ago that I do not create art for money, or fame, or
ego, or even to exhibit, or for pleasure (although I do enjoy doing it), or
for escape. For me it is simply a personal devotion to self exploration
and revelation through the spontaneous creative processes.

R: Do psychedelics play any role in your story?

P: Well, you know, I took a lot of psychedelics back in the day, even before
it was made illegal. I also ingested some peyote and mescalin, and
other things that I can’t spell.

When I was young, I was looking for some believable answers to life’s

I tried a lot of different types of substances, luckily I never got hook- ed
on any of them, except maybe, herb. I am only hooked on pot like I am
hooked on lettuce. I use them and enjoy them both regularly for health
reasons, but I can easily do without them if they are not available. You
can’s say that about real drugs like tobacco, booze, coffee, coke,
crack,etc. The thing that I am have been addicted to most is surfing, because
I don’t see myself quitting or thirsting for another session, even
now in my old age.

And acid, can be good, because it can take you beyond ego, which is
really a big breakthrough or revelation.
But, you never know what’s going to happen once you take the acid.
It is not predictable. I would never promote it.
However,I got lucky,
and was able to work out a lot of stuff that was hanging me up.
Inaccurate attitudes, and thoughts about things,so it was good in
that respect.

The bad thing is so many good people get burned out and burned
up on drugs and alcohol.Addiction is a very tough thing. Acid isn’t
habit forming, but it can sometimes have negative damaging effects

I hardly smoke at all now. Usually, just a couple of puffs in a pipe
now and then, usually in the evening.

I have a medical pot card, so I am legal, and it helps with anxiety attacks.
I haven’t smoked tobacco or drank alcohol in many many years.
When I was younger I had a lot of wild-goose type thoughts and emotions,
and the herb seemed to help organize them a little bit,
so I could function better.

And now, I’m pretty much, I don’t know, I’ve had some breakthroughs I guess, and
with diet and exercise, and rest and meditation everything seems more
unified and flowing. But I’d say, about LSD I don’t know. once
I took it every day for a month to try to figure out what was going on,
and I found the only thing that happens is, it doesn’t have much effect
after a month. Very much, anyway. But if you only take it once in a
while, it is most powerful, and people can have very bad trips more often
than good ones.

It is a very serious substance, a holy sacrament, not to be used as a
rereational drug. It is not a short cut to enlightenment, although it is definately
mind bending and conscious expanding. I am glad I did all that,
but I would not want to do it now.
R: ** trying meditation, yoga, or something like that?
P: Yeah, I do a lot of that. I regularly meditate, do Chi Gong, Yoga,
I do a lot of that everyday, and I took classes in Tai Chi, plus I do a few
floor exercises,
and regular long walks on the beach, and of course surfing.
I’m pretty much a recluse. I don’t really go anywhere or do too
much, and I’m quite happy with that. I like being in my nest a puttering
around. And uh, you know, I do some reading,
not novels usually, but mostly books about things I am interested in
knowing more about.

In my everyday life I try to help people who are in need of help
as much as possible without going out of my way to encounter those
people that need help. Whenever it comes along, then I’ll help,
I’m not a person that needs to help people, but I think that philosophical
ly that’s a good way to deal with society.

Compassion is an important thing. I realize the value in being more
compassionate and how it’s pretty much opposite to my natural
way of actually behaving. So I have to work at it, you know.
Like when somebody does something bad to me, my natural human response
is to do something even worse to them, and so I’ve learned not to do that, except in some instances
where I might have to prevent them from hurting other people.
I try to deal with my own personal rage factor and anger and stuff, you
know? Because it’s a simple trap to fall into, being really pissed off all
the time, it becomes a part of ones personality. Not a healthy thing.
Because there’s so much bad stuff outside of your control.
It doesn’t matter what’s outside of your control, you’re
really only responsible for yourself, and controlling yourself, and when
you do that, you pretty much change everything else, sort of.
I have a lot of desire for everybody to succeed at
everything they’re doing, unless it is
a really dumb, bad, evil thing. And I try to stay
out of people’s way.

I took a kind of vow of poverty about 30 years ago. I realize that I still
need and use money, of course, but it’s not an obsession or central

And since I decided that, I’ve lived well compared to before, in that my
financestake care of themselves somehow, though I live at what is
called the poverty level.

R: You’re still surfing, obviously.

P: Yea, I still surf a short board. I live within walking distance of a few
surf breaks. I’m not very good anymore, but I still have fun.

R: And you’re still making various kinds of artwork in your studio.

P: I’m still painting and sculpting. I’m working in clay and stone and wo
od, and casting bronze. Uh, I’m set up at home to do many kinds of projects
in different mediums. I’ve got all the brushes, canvas,
and paints everything ready to go in one studio, and sculpture
things in another studio, and several other areas for clay work and drawing.
I am working more with hand tools and less with power tools,
which is harder and slower, but I enjoy the process more because it is
peaceful and I can hear the birds and the ocean while I work and I feel
more unified with the cosmic pulsations.

R: The music?

P: Music, I just play music for myself, occassionally I will record something.
and I’ve been studying guitar and ukulele a lot,
I have a collection of Shakuhachi flutes in different keyes which I made,
and am playing. I still like to make musical instruments, or actually
auditible sculpture, because they don’t usually relate to formal music
theory. I am interested in metal and the resonance of metal and how
long I can get a vibration to resonate and oscillate
acoustically, without amplification or electronics.
I do have an electric guitar and speakers and amps and microphones,
but when we played, we more or less didn’t use that stuff, except on
stages that required it . The Space Bass wasn’t very loud
in a big room with a lot of people, and so sometimes under those circumstances
it would be amplified,
Charlie and I only played our creations, and not traditional musical instruments,
to create our sound.
Although privately, we played every musical instrument that exists.
Once, I remember, like we were playing, Charlie and I were playing at a
place called “In Your Ear” in Palo Alto, which was a music club and
I could easily blow out any speaker system they hooked me up to.
But that was because the instruments we were making were designed to
go where conventional instruments couldn’t go. Conventional musical
instruments would start coming apart, breaking, as soon as you hit that
magic spot beyond the sound barrier, and all the notes go helter skelter.
We played that kind of music, expressed those kind of thoughts in music.

Part of what we were doing was pushing that envelope.
Charlie and I were very much into that. So that was kind of, my
excitement about that.

Eventually, after years of campaigning The Space Bass in galleries
and music halls, I didn’t want to carry it around anymore, and I
couldn’t sell if for a million bucks, which was way underpriced,
so I just took it to the dump and recycled it.

And after that, just before
we moved to Kauai, I gave almost everything away,
all my tools and large paintings and large sculptures..

R: Do you see any of these old pals these days?

P: You know, I haven’t seen many lately, although a few are in touch.
I have nothing but the best thoughts for everybody. I don’t know if
I’d recognize half of them, or them me. Many of my old pals have
graduated to the big band in the sky,
Are you in touch with Joe?

R: Joe Lysowski ?

P: I know he had health issues last time I saw him.

R: Yeah, his daughter
lives is next to him, in Kauai, and he even got married and they’re looking
after him, that’s how it’s set up there. And I wanted them to come to San
ta Cruz. They told me they were coming to Santa Cruz because their artwork collection is i
n storage somewhere in somebody’s former ranch and ** wanted to save it. And I
was setting up the archives for the Santa Cruz Museum of Art and History.

P: Oh good, that’s important.

R: So their visit to Santa Cruz has been put off month after month for three or four months,
and I think his health is probably getting worse. For one thing, he’s suffe
ring Alzheimer’s.

When I spoke with him on the telephone I found him fairly—

P: I’m saddened to hear that, he’s a great guy.

R: Yeah. But I think it’s getting worse. I wanted to get to him and ask a f
ew questions before he forgot everything.

P: That would be great. I was thinking, man, everything in my memory’s disappearing, I refer to my
memory bank as my Memory Blank So yeah, I understand…

R: So I’d like to get him here, and if that’s impossible, I’d like to go to

P: You ought to do that.

R: I ought to do that anyway.

P: You really should. Kauai is really a very spiritual place. Very refreshing.

R: But I have a normal money problem, so I travel as much as I can, but it’s more and
more expensive, and because of my age I can’t just travel the way I used
to travel. I need to take a rest. So for example going to India is a two-day job.

P: Oh yeah. Of course Kauai is not so far as India. What I often would
do, is use a Hawaiian credit card and buy all my gas with it and use it
to get enough miles to fly over there to take a vacation—
when I’d go surfing, because I’d go by myself to go surfing, and then I’d
just camp out, I’d rent a car from a guy who rents cars to surfers. So he
rents me a Toyota van that the seats had been taken out of it, whereas if
you rent from the guys at the airport or rental cars, they don’t let you
take the seats out, they don’t let you sleep in them, and they don’t let
you go to certain parts of the island, because the road breaks down
and they don’t want you driving on it, and it’s eighty bucks a day or
something, and this guy’s like twenty or twentyfive
dollars a day and you pay three dollars a night to camp,.

You can sleep in the car, because you if you set up a campsite, you
gotta stay there to guard your possessions,
So that was a really inexpensive way to go there. But if I go
with my wife, it’s hundreds of dollars a day because, you know,
it costs way more when you stay in hotels.